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Parents Talk: When are Naked Photos of Children OK?

The child pornography charges against football coach Todd Hoffner have many parents asking what types of photos are appropriate.

Child pornography is usually pretty clear-cut.

That’s what former Ramsey County Attorney Susan Gaertner told Minnesota Public Radio on Thursday. The cases she handled were typically “pretty hardcore stuff” that were easily identifiable as child pornography.

But that’s not so clear in the case of Todd Hoffner, the Minnesota State University—Mankato football coach charged with making pornographic videos of his children.

On Wednesday, Hoffner’s attorney told a court the videos found on Hoffner’s work phone were of innocent family moments with his children—who were between the ages of 4 and 9 years old.

Photos of naked children are hardly unknown to parents. Mothers and fathers lovingly capture moments of toddlers bathing in sinks or innocently playing in their birthday suits.

But the Hoffner case raises the question of where those innocent moments end and more-harmful ones begin. Investigators who testified at Wednesday’s hearing called the videos "disturbing"—but added that they were unclear whether they were legally child pornography.

According to the Mankato Free Press, a sex therapist reviewing the videos saw:

  • A 92-second video in which three naked children are playing and happy. In the video Hoffner’s son grabs his penis, and the children “spread their buttocks and expose their anuses for the camera.” The sex therapist said there was no evidence what they were doing was designed to elicit a sexual response.
  • A 10-second video of two girls, in the middle of which a boy appears behind them wearing a football helmet.
  • A 118-second video of a sleeping “adolescent female” who was awakened and led to the bathroom. She was wearing “bed clothing.”

The sex therapist—who’s internationally renowned for his sex offender research and treatment methods—said he did not see anything lewd or obscene in the videos.

We won’t have an official decision Hoffner’s case until it’s over, but the charges have generated controversy over what types of photos are appropriate for parents to take.

Patch would like to know where you draw the line. How old is too old to photograph your son or daughter without clothes? How much of a child’s normal curiosity with their body do you capture? When do photos stop being heart-warming and start being—to use the investigators’ words—“disturbing?”

Share your thoughts in the comments below.

James Sanna (Editor) November 2, 2012 at 01:12 am
To me, Hoffner's case sounds like a cautionary tale about putting photos of your kids in places where others can see them. I grew up in that little window where our family albums were shot on film, but much of the processing was automatic—the CVS guy put your roll in a machine, and the machine spit out cut-up prints—so stuff on there was less likely to be seen by others.
How do folks handle family albums, now? Print 'em out at home? Gather around the computer?
michelle pensyl November 2, 2012 at 02:35 pm
I think once the children realize their sexuality, it's time to stop. My son was around 8 or 9 when this happened. I'd say 7 and under is appropriate, but I'm sure it varies by parent, depending on their own comfort level.
I dont think I'd grab my sons penis on film- ever.
Emily B November 2, 2012 at 03:13 pm
James, from what I've heard, Mr. Hoffner did not post these videos anywhere, the IT folks at Mankato State found the videos on his work phone, but I understand what you're talking about, I've seen videos/pics of young kids playing in their birthday suit, posted on Facebook and whatnot and I always wonder how that is perceived by others.
It seems like this is not pornography, but it was poor judgement, in my opinion, of Mr. Hoffner to use a work phone for something like that.
M Wison November 2, 2012 at 04:39 pm
Michelle, Mr. Hoffman did not grab his sons penis, his son grabbed his own penis.
Terry Hassan November 2, 2012 at 04:55 pm
I don't believe this was child porn but it serves as a warning what can happen. I don't think it's ever a good idea to take naked pics, young or old. How are these kids going to feel when they get older? They deserve to have their private parts private until they are adults and can decide what they want with their own bodies.
Derrick Williams (Editor) November 2, 2012 at 06:18 pm
One of my favorite childhood photos is that of a 3-year-old me, naked, running through the house covered in birthday cake. Just saying.
Katarina Novak November 2, 2012 at 10:12 pm
If you take naked pictures of your kid, then keep them to yourself! Keep them off the net, keep them out of your work life and in the name of all that is decent, don't show them around to random strangers! Trust me when I tell you that we don't want to see them.
Dave Haas November 2, 2012 at 11:19 pm
Katarina - He was not "showing" the videos to anyone - he didn't even look at them himself (according to published accounts - the videos where shot and then never viewed until the IT guy at Mankato state viewed them). The only way these videos came to the attention of anyone is that the coach was having a problem with his phone, he took it to their IT Dept, IT Dept gave him a new phone, wanted to make sure that everything transferred okay and played one of the videos. The IT guy then did what he was required to do by university policy and reported it to his superiors - who unlike the Penn State boneheads, called the police right away.
Again - He never showed them to anyone, much less watched them himself. Did he make a mistake by taking the video? Probably. 7-8-9 is too old for this in my opinion. But that doesn't make him a child molester, or danger to the community.
Alfreda McCray November 3, 2012 at 03:37 pm
Dave- In order for him to take the video he had to see the videos. The thing that is not clear is that he was wrong to take the pictures in the first place. Knowing that these videos would get around at some point from his phone. I know personally of a person that started doing this something with his three kids, and now he is in jail for molesting his own kids and a co-workers child.
Dave Haas November 4, 2012 at 04:52 pm
Alfreda - yes, he had to view them as he shot them. However, the point I was making is that he wasn't showing them or viewing them every minute of every day. He had not even watched them after he shot them. The explanation he provided seems to me to be reasonable. The daughters had a dance routine that they wanted to show him, the son came in and made some gestures and motions that were not appropriate. Daughter's wanted to do over - dad said no. The 2nd video of the girl going to the bathroom - I have 3 kids - I know that kids forget when to go and when they went at night. Did I ever video my kids getting up and going potty? No - but I have heard of this - in fact a doctor recommended it at one point so we could prove to our daughter that she was able to get up and go by herself.
It would be much easier and clearer had he made 500 copies and distributed them, but he didn't. This falls into the much ado about nothing category in my book.
Daryl Fryxell November 6, 2012 at 05:39 pm
You people need to get control over your kids. Good grief.
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barb June 19, 2013 at 11:01 am
The craft fair for this sat at Hopkins Activity Center has been cancelled more details in July.
James Warden (Editor) June 17, 2013 at 05:44 pm
For those who need some help dealing with coyotes, here are some tips from a national expert whoRead More visited the west metro in March: http://stlouispark.patch.com/groups/around-town/p/coyote-tips
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Coyotes are a welcome addition to the local landscape. I get a kick out of people who "run forRead More the hills" when they see these neat animals. Rarely, if ever, has a coyote attacked a human being.
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Orono June 7, 2013 at 02:29 pm
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO This guy is closer to communist than he is to democrat.
Orono May 21, 2013 at 08:53 pm
Mike B. The liberal belief system puts the job of caring for the needy on the government. JesusRead More said, love thy neighbor as thy self. I do a very poor job of loving my neighbor but the one thing I do try and do is give back. My wife and I give between 15 and 17% every year. We have been blessed with financial success and try keep that in mind every day. Also though, we give ourselves. Giving yourself to a cause is better (in my opinion) than just giving money. We give money because we can, we give our time because we should. I have a few liberal friends working beside me for our causes but, in general, the majority of us are all conservatives. Mark Dayton is a classic example of how the liberal mind works. Give the government the money, let them deal with those losers.
Mike B. June 1, 2013 at 03:29 pm
The Democrats are 100% responsible for increasing poverty in the state. Dayton and his DemocratRead More lackeys and cronies are driving out all of the job producers in Minnesota with their socialist, anti-business policies.
Sue June 5, 2013 at 09:14 am
Consider this- the (unelected) Met Council controls everything from parks, to trails, to transit, toRead More waste water. If a city wants to do anything they have to work with the Met Council and one of the FAVORITE expectations is that cities ADD "AFFORDABLE" or - Section 8 housing. While the recession hit the suburbs hard - the biggest influx or poor - are the indigenous poor into free housing
mike savick June 9, 2013 at 09:46 am
"Mike B" continues to look in the mirror and post about others. Emails show the Mr.Read More Hindin offered to produce his Minnesota drivers license at any west metro police station. The compulsively dishonest Mike B thing declined.
Michael Hindin June 9, 2013 at 10:03 am
Mike B. posted June 8, 2013 at 08:58 pm "The best one can hope for is that the jewishRead More (sic)person and the muslim (sic) will tolerate one another. Hard to tell what side is most at fault. Can't say I trust either one.... neither has what we would call Western Civilization values. "......NEITHER HAS WHAT WE WOULD CALL WESTERN CIVILIZATION VALUES"??? (Capitalization for emphasis) Without the contributions of Jews and Arab Muslims you would be still in the Dark Ages worshiping golden cows and there wouldn't be your version of "western civilization" Do I really have to remind you of a Jewish carpenter. Bearing false witness is prohibited by all Abrahamic religions.
Corinne June 10, 2013 at 05:25 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_calling
Orono June 3, 2013 at 02:18 pm
I totally agree with both points. Republicans have zero business deciding social issues. Democrats,Read More as Mark Dayton just proved, have zero business deciding important adult decisions that deal with finances and taxes.
Dan Johnson June 12, 2013 at 07:07 pm
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Dan Johnson June 12, 2013 at 07:08 pm
Orono. You said: "I hate liberalism." We have stated you are free to hate if and as youRead More want. But neither you, me, nor MB should be allowed to use hate as a justification for refusing to treat others as you would yourself under the law. MB makes it clear, he would use the law to harm all gay people severely, based on his hate.
Dan Johnson June 12, 2013 at 07:28 pm
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Susan June 9, 2013 at 07:25 pm
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Michael Hindin May 23, 2013 at 12:48 pm
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Michael Hindin May 23, 2013 at 01:02 pm
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